Episode #050

Prof. Vasant Dhar on The Evolving Role of Humans in the Age of AI

Innovation and Disruption, Learning and Career

The ContraMinds Podcast is available on

The Evolution of AI: From Game-Playing to Conversational Agents

The history of AI has seen several eras of innovation, from early game-playing systems in the 1960s to expert systems in the 70s focused on domain knowledge extraction. The machine learning breakthroughs of the 80s and 90s enabled learning from data patterns. Most recently, deep learning has solved perception challenges. The latest shift is towards general intelligence, with large language models like ChatGPT demonstrating conversational abilities, though true human-level AI remains elusive.

AI in Business: Leveraging Intelligence for Efficiency and Personalization

AI offers transformative potential for business, from streamlining processes like automating visual inspection to incredible personalization in customer service. But lacking a definitive roadmap, creativity is key – leaders must run experiments to find use cases that solve specific challenges. The focus should be leveraging AI’s perceptual and conversational strengths to eliminate inefficiencies and provide individualized interactions. Impactful initiatives include using data to enhance customer touchpoints and maintain satisfaction.

Prof. Dhar talks about:

  1. The evolution of AI paradigms from game-playing systems to expert systems, machine learning, deep learning, and now large language models demonstrating some general intelligence capabilities.
  2. The potential of connectionist AI models like neural networks for advancing general intelligence, but uncertainties remain about achieving human-level or super-human AI.
  3. Debates around open source AI – balancing benefits of transparency and community participation with risks of misuse and lack of control.
  4. Managing societal risks of AI and different global approaches to governance and regulation.
  5. Business applications of AI like using it to transform perceptual tasks and customer service interactions towards more personalization and intelligence.

About Prof. Vasant Dhar 

Prof. Vasant Dhar is an Artificial Intelligence researcher,  data scientist and host of the podcast, “Brave New World,” which explores how technology and virtualization in the post-COVID era are transforming humanity.

Vasant Dhar is a Professor of Technology, Operations, and Statistics at The Stern School of Business and the Centre for Data Science at New York University. He brought Machine Learning to Wall Street in the ’90s and subsequently founded the Machine-Learning-Based hedge fund SCT Capital Management.

Dhar’s research examines how innovations such as Artificial Intelligence impact our lives and how we can create technology and policy for a better future in a world of increasingly intelligent machines.

Dhar writes regularly in the media on Artificial Intelligence, societal risks of AI platforms, data governance, privacy, ethics, and trust. He is a frequent speaker in academic and industrial forums.

About Swami  

Your host, Swaminathan Sivaraman is a seasoned entrepreneur and industry luminary, board member, mentor and startup advisor, angel investor, co-promoter/co-founder and ex-CEO – Hansa Cequity. With over three decades of experience, he has honed strategic expertise in customer relationship management, excelling in one-to-one marketing, analytics, and cutting-edge marketing technology. Read more…

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Episode Transcript

Swami (00:07.358)

Hello Professor Vasanth there. Thanks a lot. I’m really delighted to have you as a special guest in the Contra Minds podcast. Thanks for accepting my requests. Lovely talking to you.

Vasant (00:18.914)

Thank you Swami. I am delighted to be here.

Swami (00:23.622)

So let me, you know, first, I just wanted to talk to you about your own journey into how did you get into AI and how is really the journey from where you started and what does the Center for Data Science do today?

Vasant (00:41.582)

Uh, the journey, uh, you know, as many things in life are, this was pure serendipity. Uh, I, you know, I had no idea what I wanted to do in life. Uh, I was like 22, 23 years old. I, you know, I was in graduate school in Pittsburgh and I was, uh, in the computing center, writing up a little program for one of my professors to implement some decision-making algorithm he’d come up with called the analytic hierarchy process.

And this Senior PhD student comes to me and says, hey, there’s this professor who’s like an expert in artificial intelligence. He’s built the world’s first medical diagnostic system. I’d like him to offer a doctoral seminar. Can you come along? I need to show some strength in numbers. And I said like, sure, like what is AI? And he said, you know, it’s about making computers smart. And I said, oh, that sounds great, let’s go. So we did, and we went to the medical school. There was a lab up on the 13th floor, I remember, of the medical center.

At the University of Pittsburgh. And there was a long room. And in the middle of the room, there was a terminal connected to a computer at Stanford. This was like 1979. And so there was no PCs. It was the days of time sharing. And there was a physician puffing a cigar, talking to, quote unquote, talking to the system via his assistant who was typing for him. And he entered some symptoms about a case. And the machine, the machine.

The program was called Internist. It came back and asked him some more questions. And at one point during the dialogue, he said, why are you asking me this question?

And Internist said, because the evidence you’ve given me so far is consistent with the following hypotheses, and this will help me discriminate between the top two. And I was just blown away by that. It just completely blew my mind to see a computer behaving in that way. I

nteractions with computers had been writing Fortran programs to solve complex differential equations iteratively as part of my chemical engineering days in IIT. So this was just like, blew my mind to see a machine having a dialogue with a human like this and discussing a case. And it was clear that it wasn’t following some sort of prespecified logic, but it was actually sensitive to context. And so that’s what totally blew me away.

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